8:26 a.m. - Thursday, Feb. 28, 2002
Ms Leslie answers as best as she can
OK Celena, let's see if we can find some common ground. We're not as far apart on this as you might think.

Before I address your comments, let me just remind you that all of my previous comments pertained to "Men who are attracted to danger enough to volunteer for airborne duty". About these particular men, I did make a blanket statement that they are "either ignorant, immature or insecure". I said nothing about men who are not attracted to danger enough to volunteer for airborne duty. Presumably, the vast majority of men.. even young men.. are not so attracted to danger, so my comments are restricted to a minority of those who served.

OK.. with that understanding, let me respond to your latest comments:

---> My dad never volunteered for 101st & never even went to Jump School. You see, they were pretty hard up for replacements in A co by 2/68. They said they were sending him to 101st and he said "you can't do that, I'm not airborne" & they said "you are now". <----

This effectively removes your dad from the discussion. I have to say, I never knew anyone was asked to serve in any airborne unit without having volunteered to attend jump school and having met the criteria for success. That your dad didn't go to jump school only verifies that he was not one of those "Men who are attracted to danger enough to volunteer for airborne duty".

Service with the 101st was, for the most part, not voluntary. We were assigned by the Army to that unit for reasons known only to them. I, for instance, was moved to the 101st Airborne Div. from the 82nd Airborne Div., where I was a battalion cammander's jeep driver, happily running his errands and picking up his laundry. My orders to report to the 101st came as a complete surprise to me. Still.. unlike your dad, I was one of those "Men who are attracted to danger enough to volunteer for airborne duty" because I did volunteer previously to attend jump school.

----> My dad did volunteer for the draft, but his best friend who died there didn't. Is one bra vier than the other? No. <----

My point exactly. Each man carried his own measure of bravery into the service. Some had that bravery tested more than others, but everyone showed that bravery was within simply by putting on the uniform.

I can't guess why your father volunteered for the draft. There could be any number of reasons. I sincerely doubt that he volunteered out of an attraction to danger. He obvioulsy had more sense than that.

----> But I still think you had to be very brave to end up in this outfit BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT IF YOU WEREN'T.<----

Oh I couldn't disagree more strongly. I disagree with both parts of this statement. First, "ending up in this outfit" was not a function of bravery. It was mostly a random event. The army had no effective way to test for bravery and then select the bravest men for any specific assignment. Believe me when I say that some members of the 101st were not brave at all. Others were extremely brave. Just being in the 101st did not make anyone any braver than they already were (or were not). Secondly, bravery had very little to do with survival. The bravest guys were killed.... and so were some of the most cowardly. Survival turned out to be dependant on experience, skill, common sense and mostly luck.

----> Maybe I've got no right talking to you about this because you were there & I am a 29 year old "kid" who wasn't, but understand why I know the things I know. <----

"Kid"... you have EVERY right to talk about this.Whether we were volunteer or not, brave or foolish, ignorant or mature, your right to have and express your opinion is what your dad and all the rest of us were paying for. Now it's your job to keep it by using it. Not only that, but you have another claim to the right to talk. Re-read what you wrote below:

----> My dad came home from Vietnam crazy as hell. I remember being told from the time I was old enough to remember that my dad wasn't right and it was from the war. Somehow when my mom split, he managed to take care of me. He would have never been voted Dad of the Year by anyone but me because the SWAT team was at our house more than once. Cops, fights and all kinds of other things were a regular part of my life at a very young age. I don't blame him because he did the best he could. I have spent the last 12-15 years of my life trying to understand. <----

You don't have to be a soldier to make a sacrifice. Welcome to the Vietnam war. Alongside every veteran of Vietnam, you've paid the price of freedom by sacrificing your own childhood. You didn't ask for this, but you survived it. Welcome home.

----> I read & reread everything I could find. Those times he drank enough to remember and utter someone's name (because he didn't talk about it), I would sneak off to write the name down & research it. About 5 years ago I finally got a hold of some official records from his outfit. You may be interested in seeing them as I think I have read your name in them. these include Morning after reports, and Daily reports. Of the 400+ days I have records on, I counted the days his unit was involved in heavy fire. It was 4. These guys still did their job.<----

As an aside to our discussion, let me say I'd be extremely interested in this material. Not for my own name, but for that of Sp/4 Craig Axxxx. He was killed on or about 3/8/68. I'd like to know more about the circumstances of his death. By the way... after several years of effort, I've finally found Craig's sister and learned that both of his parents are dead. Thanks to virtualwall.org, and his sister, I've gotten the picture I wanted so badly... quite a few of them as a matter of fact.

----> So I don't know how you can tell me the 101st is not an elite group. Did the guy sleeping in the jungle have it rougher than the MP in Saigon? You tell me, you were there, I wasn't. <----

Yes, he did have it tougher than the MP. Was he braver than the MP? More elite? No, I still don't think he was. Each man, like your father... and like me, has claim to a genuine and abiding pride. I'll tell you why at the end of this letter.

----> You want to know something else? My dad can't really seek out anybody and he doesn't know how to turn the computer on. Maybe this is because of his PTSD, maybe it's because they are all dead. Please go to the Virtualwall.org and read my stories on Gary Templeton, and James MacClafferty, and maybe you will see why I feel so strongly about this. <----

I see that you do feel strongly, but I'm still confused about why you do. These men were obviously good men and brave. If you are under the impression that they became good and brave because they served with the 'elite' 101st, then I'm afraid I still must disagree. They brought their own goodness and bravery with them and honored the 101st by their actions... it's NOT the other way around. They would have been just as good and brave if they had been typing up morning reports, flipping eggs over easy, or changing the oil on helicopters. Please.. don't misunderstand me; It's possible.. even likely... that a young man can be ignorant, immature and insecure, and still be brave and honorable.

Ignorance, immaturity and insecurity can be grown out of very quickly. Or they can persist for a lifetime. Bravery and honor endure forever.

----> You're damn right I think it's an elite group, <----

It's not

----> and you're damn right I think you all had bravier that's unparalleled. <---

We didn't

----> I can only hope that others will not judge the group of them by the actions and words of a few as you have. <----

And I hope that others will judge them by their individual qualities.. good or bad.. and not based on their membership in any group. That's my whole point. There were some ignorant cowards in the 101st. There were some really brave guys in other units... and the other way around. There is nothing special or elite about having been randomly assigned to a military unit. To think there is only detracts from the individual qualities of all who served.

Now..... if you're not so angry that you've stopped reading.. let me tell you why your dad and all of us who served in any capacity can be justifiably proud:

WE KEPT OUR WORD.

I was still a young punk, only 17 years old, when I raised my hand and swore to protect and obey. Almost immediately upon entering basic training, I saw other young men do the most outrageous things to renege on that promise. As soon as things got even a little bit tough, I saw guys looking for a way out. But I kept my word.

Yes, when the airborne guys came around in their polished jump boots and shiny wings to tell us how wonderful and glorious being a paratrooper was, I was ignorant, immature and insecure. I volunteered to become airborne based on those qualities alone. It was a mistake. I would have been better off to follow my original plans to go to missle school and spend my time in Europe. But even after I realized I had made a mistake.. I kept my word and did as I was asked.

I did things that literally made me wet my pants in Vietnam. Can you imagine how scared I was? I was 18 years old... barely. I didn't want to protect anything. I just wanted to go home. But I could not allow myself to back out of my promise. Even when I was convinced that I would die. The screaming eagle patch on my shoulder didn't make me this way. I brought it with me. The army didn't know for sure whether I could keep my word or not when they sent me to the 101st. Neither did I.

But I did. And that one thing alone is the source of pride for me. I earned the right to be proud of that. I know that no matter how ignorant, immature or insecure I might have been, I still had the courage to do as I was asked; to keep my word no matter what.

If you are proud of your dad... please be proud of him for this reason too. He kept his word... at great sacrifice to himself and his family. It doesn't matter where or when he served. It only matters that he persevered against some terrible experiences. Be proud of all of us who served, whether in the army, navy, airforce, marines or coast guard. Each of us shares that common quality. We kept the faith. We brought honor to our units and ouselves. WE brought it. Not the 'elite' unit.

----> I will always respect you for your bravery, not only for what you did over there, but for showing up at the reunion a few years ago (because I know that was hard)<----

It was very hard.... but necessary too. I did me a lot of good. It helped me start to cry.

----> but I think you are wrong Leslie. <----

That's OK. I love ya anyway. I hope that through this letter you'll think I am a little less wrong, but even that's not necessary. We are both passionate about this subject, and that's a good thing.

<----Let me add that I also think it is really sad that they did not allow you to join their web ring, but I think it is THEIR loss.<----

Lol.... at last! we agree on something. It IS their loss. These two yahoos are losing not only the radiance of my company; They are losing the exact qualities they were supposed to be defending. They prove that membership in the 101st does not automatically make a man great. They excluded me without even trying to understand me, based on my membership in another group... that of transexuals... without the first thought of the fact that they are supposed to be my brothers.

As I've said before; Ignorance, immaturity and insecurity can be grown out of and left behind... or it can persist. For these men, and any others like them, those qualities have persisted throughout all these years. I'm sorry for them. They apparently can not progress. And I'm embarrassed to know that I served alongside them in any capacity whatsoever. They kept their word too, but I'm not so sure they kept it for any of the right reasons.

OK Celena........... your turn. Let me have it with both barrels, or let me know you see my point of view. Either way, don't stop thinking of me with a little fondness once in a while. I'd rather be your friend than be right. If we still disagree, I'll accept that with no further comment. I've had my say and you have got yours coming. I can't promise to agree, but I will promise to read carefully and consider your opinion.

Fair enough?

Leslie

- Mormon Boy born and raised

- Vietnam Combat Veteran

- PTSD Vet

- Husband

- Father

- Grandfather

- Transexual Woman

And you think YOUR life is confusing?

Try "Being Ms Leslie"

http://MsLeslie.com/

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